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Remote Buddy Forum

Overview 

AuthorThread
User

15.05.2007 21:10:45
maybe bug...?
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This posting is older than 6 months and can contain outdated information.
I've noticed an issue with Remote Buddy, but unfortunately this is going to be vague, and not give much guidance as to where the problem lies.

When I watch fullscreen videos with iTunes or EyeTV and call up the Remote Buddy menu, or an Applescript-derived menu, after doing this a few times the computer will be unable to play fullscreen video in a smooth manner. Video in a window is okay, but when scaled to fullscreen it becomes jerky. The computer appears to work very hard to play the video, as the fan comes on. A reboot will cure this problem, but then after using the menu a few times it recurs.

I'm using a Mac Mini G4 1.25 GHz, 512 MB RAM, 32MB Radeon 9200 graphics.

I don't see this on my dual-core Intel iMac... but maybe it's happening and the iMac is just so fast that I don't notice.

Maybe the combination of fullscreen video and the graphically beautiful RB menu, together, are just too much for this computer's meager system resources? (...or for its meager graphics card?) Or maybe, in that it seems to get progressively worse, there's some kind of bug/memory leak? I checked the activity monitor and nothing seems to be using crazy amounts of memory... but then I can't see the activity monitor when the video is in fullscreen.

I haven't tested enough to determine whether there's a difference in using an Applescript RB menu vs. using the normal RB menu... I understand that they are generated in different ways, so maybe there's a difference. Will advise on that next time I get a chance to fiddle with it. 

These entries from the FAQ may be relevant to this topic:

Hardware - Apple® Remote
Hardware - EyeTV Receiver
User

16.05.2007 18:14:53
Re: maybe bug...?
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This posting is older than 6 months and can contain outdated information.
I have a G4 1.25GHz mac mini with 1GB RAM. I know what you're talking about. I'm not 100% that it's RB related but it seems that my mac has issues with full-screen videos too.

I've had RB hang on my a few times, I'm not sure if it was caused by VLC or Perian (on QTPlayer).

Perhaps it's the overhead of OSX in general. But I find it odd. My hacked Xbox (with XBMC running an MPlayer variant) plays even 720P videos smooth as silk.

Last edited: 16.05.2007 18:15:23 

User

16.05.2007 22:42:49
Re: maybe bug...?
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This posting is older than 6 months and can contain outdated information.
Just to be clear, this is definitely an RB-related issue. When I quit RB, my fullscreen videos play perfectly in DVD Player, EyeTV, VLC, iTunes and FrontRow. It's only when RB is running that I see this slowdown.

Now, that doesn't mean it's a *bug*. RB is a graphically beautiful application. Perhaps RB, combined with fullscreen video, is just too much for our little 32mb graphics cards. There are no listed system requirement but perhaps Felix can enlighten us as to what kind of resources RB demands.

Or, again, I'm not sure whether this has to do with all RB menus or just those that are Applescript-generated. Felix suggested in another post that these two methods of creating and displaying menus are actually very different. So maybe it's a bug or inefficiency in RB's connection to Applescript; or maybe a bug or inefficiency in Applescript itself. 

User

17.05.2007 19:48:01
Re: Re: maybe bug...?
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This posting is older than 6 months and can contain outdated information.
Thanks for asking. Now that's a very complex question to answer.

First of all, Remote Buddy is designed to be as efficient as possible 
with system resources, i.e. avoiding AppleScript where possible and 
is generally event driven, so unless something of significance 
happens (i.e. active application changes, button presses, animating 
prefs imagery, receiving data from the hardware, f.ex. interpreting 
Wiimote ir sensor input), it will just sit idle, needing 0% of your 
CPU resources.

Second, it does use low level graphics functions. It uses Quartz to 
render the entire interface (even the selection bar is drawn entirely 
in Quartz - no pre-rendered graphics, here). It is, however, often of 
advantage to cache commonly used images (i.e. Behaviour logos, base 
image for the remote's button legend) to avoid loading and decoding 
time, so Remote Buddy will do this at some point. Still, no problem 
with that. Remote Buddy even closes and frees the window it uses for 
its menu entirely when you hide it to minimize graphics memory usage.

What *may* cause a problem, though, is the way OS X graphics 
subsystem works to speed up drawing: it caches images and usually 
also complete windows in graphics card memory. An application has no 
direct influence on whether OS X will do this or not. Of course, OS X 
is smart, so it will eventually drop older graphics (still keeping it 
in main memory, of course) to replace it with newer or more recently 
used graphics.

Windows are composed by the window server, Quartz Compositor (not 
Quartz Composer - those are two totally different things) and, since 
Jaguar (10.2) they are rendered as an OpenGL scene (it was, btw, this 
very fact that finally made me purchase my first OS X system ;-). 
That has the advantage, that only little CPU time is spent on 
composing the different buffers, rendering alpha effects and shadows 
- it's all done on the graphics chip. The downside of this is 
increased graphics memory consumption through the system.

Now, if you run on a machine with only 32 MB of graphics memory 
(which is around the amount of memory needed to hold a single 8 
megapixel image), it's easy to run out of it - especially with data 
intense, high bandwidth fullscreen video. And that's probably what is 
happening here.

An example from my own experience: I have noticed "jumpy" and smooth 
graphics performance of OS X myself on two systems when using Expose:

- iMac Core Duo, external 24" display, 128 MB graphics memory => 
Exposé animation will be "jumpy" 
- MacBook Pro, same 24" display, 256 MB graphics memory => Exposé is 
absolutely smooth

It is worth noticing, that both systems have virtually the same 
specs: same graphics chip, same chipset and same amount of installed 
main memory. They mainly differ in the amount of installed graphics 
memory.

So, yes, you may just be asking too much from the graphics chip / 
memory of your system. The only scenario that I can think of, where 
Remote Buddy could have a direct (= something, I might be able to do 
anything about) influence on the graphics performance of your system 
would be when it is performing CPU intense tasks in the background. 
You should be able to spot this with Activity Monitor, though. Unless 
one of the events of interest listed above occurs, its CPU usage 
should generally be at 0%. If it isn't, I'd be very much interested 
in the log output of Activity Monitor's "Analyze" function.

Something you may want to try out, though, is to run at a lower 
screen resolution. This will reduce both the amount of memory needed 
for rendering your desktop and fullscreen video.

Best regards, 
Felix 

User

18.05.2007 08:48:11
Re: maybe bug...?
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This posting is older than 6 months and can contain outdated information.
1st: I lowered the resolution of my display and it seems to have helped. EyeTV is better (though still not quite 100%), and fullscreen movies in iTunes are fine. For those running old Mac Minis, the resolution I selected for my LCD TV display is 1024x614. A resolution close to that should work alright.

2nd: I tested the issue a bit more, and it does seem to be worse with Applescript-derived RB menus than with the normal RB menu.

3rd: just a couple notes for Felix after all this experimentation with screen resolution:

- While you can control the size of the normal RB menu with the slider in the preferences, the size of the Applescript-derived menus is apparently static. Probably not worth putting much effort into changing, since it will so rarely be a problem (only on screen with vertical resolution of less than 550 or so, which isn't many these days - it looks fine with my 614 vertical pixels); but I thought you should at least be aware of it.

- More importantly, because it's not just an aesthetic issue: the RB preference panel can be problematic on screens with a vertical resolution of less than 640 pixels. Specifically, that is the approximate height of the "custom actions" sheet within the "behaviours" tab. At my resolution of 614 vertical pixels, I am unable to press OK to dismiss the sheet. You might want to make this sheet a bit smaller, so those with underpowered computers can go down to 800x600 resolution. 

User

21.05.2007 17:09:01
Re: Re: maybe bug...?
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This posting is older than 6 months and can contain outdated information.
1) I guess that's pretty much confirming my theory on the GPU memory 
being the bottleneck.

2) Do you see any slow downs only while the menus are open or beyond 
that as well?

3) I've added support for controlling size (actually a one-liner). 
Thanks for pointing out.

Preferences are a different thing, though. It's difficult to get this 
right for everyone unless going for a solution like System 
Preferences.app, which just adds a scroll bar on the right in case 
the window doesn't fit on screen. I'll think about the latter.

Best regards, 
Felix 

User

25.05.2007 00:26:52
Re: maybe bug...?
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This posting is older than 6 months and can contain outdated information.
Actually, I\'ve noticed this problem even on the lower resolution. It starts out alright, but after some time playing fullscreen video (towards the end of a 2 hour movie, for example) it starts to stutter, as if it\'s unable to keep up with the video.

This is not just when the menu is open; once I use the menu it begins, and then it gets progressively worse, even if I no longer use the menu.

Also, I\'ve confirmed that this is only an issue for RB menus called up from an Applescript. (As I mentioned in another thread, I have a text file that contains the syntax for the menu itself; the scripting done by RB itself only has to do with the selection.) 

User

29.05.2007 16:30:01
Re: Re: maybe bug...?
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This posting is older than 6 months and can contain outdated information.
While debugging a differrent issue with Quartz Debug, I noticed that 
Remote Buddy does reopen an invisible window when applications are 
switched, which will consume graphics memory and possibly trigger 
also CPU time drawing to it. It may contribute to the problem. I'll 
fix it.

Btw, if you have access to Quartz Debug, you may want to check for 
other tool's consumption of graphics memory yourself in its "Window 
list". It shows the amounts of graphics memory used by each window 
and application.

Best regards, 
Felix 

User

29.05.2007 18:53:01
Re: Re: maybe bug...?
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This posting is older than 6 months and can contain outdated information.
Update: Some fun with auto-updating the menu on certain events caused 
the window to be opened in the background - including drawing to it. 
I fixed this. This brings Remote Buddy back down to 16.5 KBytes of 
graphics memory usage and no background drawing.

May I send you a version for testing (~ 5-6 MB mail) to verify this 
reduced memory usage does also have a positive impact on the video 
performance of your Mac Mini?

Best regards, 
Felix 

User

30.05.2007 07:32:40
Re: maybe bug...?
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This posting is older than 6 months and can contain outdated information.
Hi Felix. I was just about to write about my further testing: I had noticed that the graphics problem disappeared upon quitting Remote Buddy, and without closing any other programs or rebooting. So I concluded that whatever was eating into the graphics memory must be contained within Remote Buddy itself.

But I see that you've gone much further and seem to have identified the issue. Well done! I'd be happy to test the fixed version to confirm the solution. You can email it to me, but I'm not sure if the account I used to regster here will accept large attachments. Instead try bm571 [at] nyu [dot] edu